You may remember a few months ago I wrote an article about how the ECM and engine electrical systems work in your electronic diesel engine. This month, I’d like to talk about how we used some of that knowledge to diagnose and fix some common problems – and save a ton of money. Currently in our shop, we have a truck that has been plagued with multiple puzzling electrical problems. The truck is a 1999 Kenworth W900 that has been repowered with a DDEC III Series 60. Neither the dealer nor the local Detroit Diesel shop could figure this one out, and after plenty of parts (and money) were thrown at this truck, nothing was solved. Now, that W900 is here at our shop, and it’s our turn to take a crack at fixing this electrical mystery.
The first problem we sought to fix on this KW was an intermittent loss of power. When the throttle was put to the floor then released, the throttle would go dead for a few seconds and the truck would lose power. When you have a problem like this, the first thing you need to do is check the throttle positioning sensor. The DDEC III and DDEC IV engine controllers do not use an idle validation like the ones in a Caterpillar or Cummins engine. So, before you start going through all the diagnostic tests for testing an intermittent power loss, you should take a hard look at the throttle positioning sensor.
When first checking the throttle positioning sensor, use a voltmeter to compare the voltage of the throttle positioning sensor wire with the ECM sensor return wire. You should see about half a volt if your foot is off the throttle. When you floor the accelerator, you should see no more than 4.5 volts. Anything outside of this range will cause the engine controller to recalibrate the sensor. This holds true with both Bendix and Williams throttle positioning sensors (the ECM doesn’t care who made the throttle positioning sensor – it only cares about the voltage range). Also, if you have Detroit Diesel Diagnostic Link, you can see how the engine controller interprets those voltages.
After testing the sensor, we found that it was returning nearly 5 volts on the signal wire anytime the pedal was floored. That was all it took for this truck to have a dead pedal. DDEC III and DDEC IV engine controllers will go into a sensor recalibration mode, without showing any signs other than a sharp drop in interpreted throttle position, as the sensor recalibrates over and over again, after seeing something that is out of the expected voltage range. How did we fix this problem? We installed a five cent 94K ohm resistor from Radio Shack into the throttle positioning sensor signal wire, which cured this truck’s power problem by not allowing more than 4.5 volts to pass through it. Knowing a little about basic electronics can pay you back big-time when working with these trucks. Not all electrical problems are this easy, though. Some problems, like the next one we found, require a bit more work.
The second problem that this W900 had was that the engine fan would turn on and off for no apparent reason. The manual fan switch was functional, but the DDEC III ECM wasn’t detecting the fan override on its digital programmed input. To further complicate this problem, anytime the engine fan clutch was engaged, the Jake brakes would not activate. Somehow, these two circuits were interacting with each other and the engine computer wasn’t showing any clues as to why.
The interaction between these two circuits could only happen in one of three places. The most likely location is the primary OEM wiring harness that links the DDEC’s engine controller to the connectors on the firewall. This harness supplies the input and output signals for both the Jake and the engine fan. This is the first harness that we needed to remove from the truck and inspect. The second possibility is that the Jake and fan override input signals are interfering with one another in the dashboard wiring harnesses. Dashboard harnesses are not subjected to as much heat, corrosive substances and vibration as the harnesses on the other side of the firewall, so odds are better that the problem is in the OEM wiring harness. Thirdly, the DDEC III ECM itself could be the problem, but this is not nearly as common (to date I have only seen a handful of engine controllers cause a problem like this).
When looking for an electrical problem, there are steps to follow. First, you want to determine all of the possible places that the error could be occurring and then, looking at the most probable ones first, start going through them one-by-one and checking everything. On this particular job, we have already eliminated the ECM as a source of these problems by simply replacing it with a test unit and verifying that the problem still persists. One down, two to go. If the problem was only an intermittent Jake issue, we would be taking a hard look at the sensor and injector harnesses, but as it is directly related to the engine fan, we can eliminate those as potential problem areas at this point.
We are still in the process of going through everything on this Detroit-powered Kenworth, but we have found and fixed some issues already. It is impossible to say, at this point, if the engine fan and Jake brake issue has been resolved because we are still working on the wiring harness and it has not yet been reinstalled in the truck. We think we have fixed the problem, but we will see. In the meantime, we are dealing with a few other issues we have found, as well. Next month, when we know more, I’ll bring you up to speed on what is happening with this electrical nightmare, so stay tuned.
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34 Comments
my 1999 freightliner century has a series 60 ddec3 engine with about 600 to 700000 milies. my truck shut down outside of kansascity. the ecm messed up and no memory was available. the kenworth dealer i took it to got a new ecm programmed and all but my truck still wont start .they put the new ecm box in a identical engine and no problem. i have spent a lot of money and the new ecm still wont work. please email me any thoughts you might have. desperate
HE YOU FOUND THE PROBLEM YET. IM HAVING THE SAME
dodge 2002 cummings has loss of power on and off all day gets a little better after about 5 miles driving u can release fuel and reapply and it may go most of the time but all the time u must drive a bout 5 miles.
we have a 1990 kw w900b we installeda ddec3 out of a 1999 volvo every thing worked fine except the cruise and jake please help us out our detroit dealer inland diesel in iron mtn. mi. charged us 300.00 to let us know they didn’t have a clue?? what to do?
In my 2002 DDEC-4 430/1450, engine lopes at idle for no reason. Example, at time of fueling engine is smooth as silk going in, but as new fuel is added engine begins freaking out and missing out. Also during cold starts, engine cranks and goes into high idle, then as it’s warm and coming down to idle it begins freaking out and missing out. A simple blip or two of the throttle pedal with my finger and it’s smooth as silk. But this also happens after a long run, then after period of idle for no reason it starts freaking out again. F/I wire harness is brand new as are SRS/TRS/CLS/CTS/FTS sensors. When this occurs at hot idle, I set cruise control to 700+ rpm’s and it smooths out and stays that way until I turn off cruise or release parking brakes. This is not a normal condition for this engine, any clue why it’s doing it? My only resolve is to take it back to Detroit Diesel and have them move idle speed from 625 to 700 rpm’s. This should eliminate this issue but if it’s an easy fix than I’d rather keep engine as it were new.
my 2008 kw fan would come on, cruse wouldnt work and jakes wouldnt eather. I prayed to god to help me find the problem and with his guidence i found it. wiring harness comes over engine and down twards the frame then back up to fire wall. where the wires come back up they rubed against the dog house that is covered with a auluminum type cover. when it rubbed threw the wires they made contact feeding the power where it shouldnt. i repaired all 9 wires that were rubbed and now thank JESUS it works like new
I’m glad for you that God has helped you find you problem now maybe he will have time to help me 2000 Volvo Detroit shows voltage at the fuse box but none in the wiring harness going to my gauge cluster.
I have a 1997 fld with a N14 cummins I am tring to find the location of my jake brake relay have done everything I can think of please need help
My 1993 freightliner with a 11.1 detroit engine takes about 10 to 15 seconds to start and thats in normal weather. What can be the problem ?
my engine detroit series 60 DDC IV not starting after cranking have any body its solution.
Hey there! I have a 2005 Western Star with a Dertroit 60 in it. The other mechanic did an inframe on it. After getting it all back together and fixing many issues with it since the previous owner drove it to the ground and we experienced all the headaches that came with it. Since the rebuild, we replaced the ECM and both side engine harnesses due to a lot of cuts and rehabed repairs. This tractor was from our other shop that sent it to us to work on. Unfortunately we didnt know there were any issues with it, just coming in for an inframe. After all the fixins, when you start it cold. The engine light comes on and off than slows down while its warming up, than almost nothing in about 2-3 minutes. While on a road test maybe light might flash once. I had my lap top on it with the DDL software. At cold start I can see the code flash active and non active until it warms up and goes away. The flah code was 41 and 42. Too many SRS and too few TRS. All the parts are new. Just for laughs and giggles I tested the new wiring harness. No shorts or open. I can read the proper ohms off both sensors from the ECM connector pins. I had two new sensors which both read the same as the ones in the engine. I still tried the new ones just incase one was intermitant. Still the same problem with the new ones. It makes no sence to me what is warming up that is making the engine light go away after warm up and almost not coming on most of the times. Was the ECM not programed right from the dealer. If I had hair on my head it would be pulled out. Im stumped.
my brother in law has a freightliner truck it has a 12.7 detroit diesel engine we have replaced the water pump and heater cores and when the truck idles or stops we have no heat and we have taken it to 2 different garages and they cant figure out what is going on with it..so is anyone able to help us out and maybe give us some ideas??
Change your thermostats, sounds like they are sticking open
Hi
I have a Detroit 12.7L S60 engine, when the temperature is below 150F it runs well up to 2100rpm. As the temperature approaches 150F ,the engine gives out popping sounds and white smoke as you accelerate above 1500rpm.If you disconnect the intake temperature sensor , the popping sound stops and the engine runs well and even accelerate up to 2100rpm.We have replaced injectors with those from a good engine which does not have a similar problem,also the E.C.M. , another cylinder head but the problem still persist. Any ideas before this truck drives us up the wall?
Got a 06 model 60s detroit 515 14liter. Voltage regular at idle run up the road in consistent, Che k engine light comes on engine stop comes on and optimized idle light comes on in high rpm like 1500, voltage drops thus making it like a shutdown situation I pull out of gear into neutral to tap accelerator to revive truck once it goes thru the process carry on down the road it does it again in same operation at 1500 0r little better to voltage dropping and so on like described. Tested alternator, bought 2 brand new batteries, checked battery connection looked over visual grounds as best as possible. Basically loses power to shutdown I revive to only go thru my process again, but at a low rpm I can drive anywhere it seems. Any thoughts are much appreciated. Running out of funds and resources and have 2 kids to raise ty
I have a 500hp Detroit 60 series and it looks like it have a mind of its own because when the engine is idling it starts accelerating by itself, the rpms goes really high them it drops back to normal and it keep doing it again and again. Also when I’m driving it and need to change gear the rpm stays up them I have to close the ignition switch for it to go down. I’m thinking it might be the throttle switch under the accelerator. Can someone help me with this problem. it’s really driving me crazy.
Did you get your problem fixed my truck doing the same thing
Same problem! Any help?
I have the same problem. Did you figure anything out?
2006 Freightliner. 60 Series Detroit. Loss of power. Had great power before I adjusted the valves, replaced injector cups, and replaced the Turbo actuator valve
Bypass the harness and directly wire the TPS to the ecm.
We have a 2012 freight liner with a dd16 and our issue is the jake brake works only when the engine is cooler.. Then the motor gets really hot then the jakes won’t work or just works on low. We have be chasing this issue have Changed wire harness, a cracked turbo, water pump, selinoid rocker shaft, worked fine hauled a load of gravel still worked no over heating, then they quit again then would come on go off come on go off then then worked again for a little bit then quit again. Clutch , brake and cruise switches have all been checked have checked a lot of the obvious. At wits end. Any suggestions would be great
Installed new batteries 4 of them in a 2003 KW w900 and went to start and I have no lights starter nothing
Your kw may have a relay and breaker assembly in the battery box. If so check to see if you have left off a wire from the battery cable to the relay. It can easily drop down behind the batteries when connecting the main cables back to the batteries!
I have a 2007 peterbilt 386 with isx Cummins my throttle goes out and the engine shutdown light comes on but the truck never shuts down. I can press the throttle to the floor and wait for it to respond it does but just for a second or two and it goes away again once I get the truck to 30 mph I am able to use the cruise control but there’s no throttle. I have replaced the pedal, the tps sensor and ecm and I still have a problem with the throttle. I need some suggestions please help
I have the exact problem with my 04 Freightliner Columbia series 60 14 L
It’s a “Throttle Position Sensor” … not a “positioning sensor”. It sends the ECM a signal of the throttle position (in this case, pedal position).
I have a fitzgerald 2015 peterbilt glider with a 97 12-7 DD , having issues with my jake brake and cruise working sparracticly, .
I replaced the clutch switch and the return spring and still no cc or jakes. I tried to find a fuse panel with cc or jakes and come up empty. please help
I have a 97 ddec lll that did the exact same thing. It turned out to be the throttle position sensor. Hope that helps.
I need to adapt the Wire harness of a engine 12.7L to a 2009 freightliner Columbia conventional and this does not have DPF can help me,,,,thanks
having A problem on a 2000 sterling with a Detroit.
All indications point to a tps issue. I ordered the part from ford they sent a Williams controls Gil 340000. We replaced the sensor. With no change in symptoms. We did not replace the harness yet. The new harness has plugs on both ends. However the harness in the truck has been spliced in.
I do not know how to test it.
Having a similar problem with a 2011 built cummins ISX 450 in a 2012 pete 587. engine idles fine and accelerates find when truck is not moving. When in gear and accelerating engine loses power. Had fault codes on injector circuit, borrowed an ecm installed it all was good.
So I was told ecm was bad , replaced it with rebuilt from Deisel ECM Exchange, it was supposed to be programmed to match old one. Installed new one no codes but still loses power on acceleration. Sitting still revs up to 1500 ok, but in gear trying to drive it loses power, any comments. Thanks
I have a 1993 fld120 with a detriot 60..when in neutral if you accelerate when it hits 1500 rpm begins to rev sporadically and does they same through low gears. When you get to highway gears you can accelerate and keep accelerating but you let your foot off the pedal and the pedal goes dead till rpms drop back below 1500rpm…has been to the dealer and replaced sensors has no governor also has had the ecm rebuild and still no fix any insight? Thanks in advance…
Have a 60 series when idling it will idle up and down on it’s own and when driving want idle down until engi e is shut down